Curse

Shadow_Avenger · Jun 24, 2005, 09:18 PM // 21:18

The existing system is simple, Your suggestion to add on the fly tags to peoples names, afk, lft, has its merits, but the point is that it is subjective to players being there , and using it.
Making the reward as an end of mission reward isn't.It does actually help solve the issue, human nature is that the more options you have the more indecisive people become and the more likely people with a 'take personality' are to try and take advantage. Reduce the number of options and people will actually start to work together. There are those that sit on the fence, but even then you are either a giver or a taker, a leader or follower.

As for getting a PuG I have never had a problem, sometimes you get a couple of prats on your team, but the majority of the time its fine.
Another plus would be, It would also add to the PvE only game duration, getting the bonus should be a challange, harder than the main mission. With the new PvP update due, PvP players will have less reason to farm, go back for the extra xp as they get what they want / need from the PvP.

P.S I did read all your post, its just that maybe your view point is not the same as mine.

Cap'n Hoek · Jun 24, 2005, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dazzler

What we need is some sort of bulletin board system in each town (that spans all the districts).

You walk into town, pull up the bulletin board, click "Add Me" and tick off the quests/missions you are interested in that are in the area. The game adds you to a "list" with your profession and level and maybe some comment you write about yourself.

Anyway trying to form a pug can pull up this list and filter based on quest/mission/profession/level and possibly keyword search the comment. Presto you immediately get a list of everyone in all the districts that have the same goal as you and have the skills your pug is still needing.

This is an excellent idea, in my opinion. And having played other games (such as Everquest) that have a LFG tool, I'm kinda surprised we don't have something like this already.

Dazzler · Jun 24, 2005, 09:34 PM // 21:34

/me is confused. If you do not have any problems getting a PuG then you must not be suffering from the problem that started this thread. If you aren't suffering from a problem, then why do you think the system needs to be changed?

By the way, there *are* missions that function exactly the way you want. ANet chose to make them that way: you must finish the mission before you can do the bonus.

The flip side of your argument about "less options == less chance to take advantage of it" is that "less options == less fun for people of different play styles" and so the game would cater to a smaller group of players. Players that had just the bonus left to do would be split: Some would put up with the new system, others would just say "Screw It" and wouldn't ever go back to do the bonus. The net result is a smaller number of people sitting in the mission area looking for a PuG. This would reduce the pool of players available to group with on missions for any purpose--be it for the ones wanting the bonus or the ones wanting the mission or both.

What if the "new PuG system" were setup so that you *couldn't* lie? If you ticked that you would do the mission and then formed a PuG with that option ticked, then if you aborted the mission after finishing the bonus you would not get credit because the game would see that you lied on your PuG application. However, if you did not tick the "mission" checkbox and you joined a PuG, then you could safely quit after doing the bonus even if everyone else wanted to do the mission--because you advertised up front what your intentions were and it should not be a surprise to the rest of the party when you up and leave after the bonus.

Shadow_Avenger · Jun 25, 2005, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Quote:

/me is confused. If you do not have any problems getting a PuG then you must not be suffering from the problem that started this thread. If you aren't suffering from a problem, then why do you think the system needs to be changed?

Because it is a good idea, and just because I have not let the fact that it DOES happen to me and alot of other players deter me from playing and getting good PuG.

Quote:

The flip side of your argument about "less options == less chance to take advantage of it" is that "less options == less fun for people of different play styles" and so the game would cater to a smaller group of players. Players that had just the bonus left to do would be split: Some would put up with the new system, others would just say "Screw It" and wouldn't ever go back to do the bonus. The net result is a smaller number of people sitting in the mission area looking for a PuG. This would reduce the pool of players available to group with on missions for any purpose--be it for the ones wanting the bonus or the ones wanting the mission or both.

Less options can actually be a good thing, it depends on context, Having it so you have to do pass the finish line before you gain a reward is not that bad. The bonus is just that a bonus, the main part is the mission itself. i.e. the main mssion is the race, and the bonus is the pit stop.
Now you can pick at it all night / day, but anything can be twisted. Face it having to actually finish a mission before you recieve 1000xp bonus isn't going to effect you, if you are PvE you will relish the challange, if you PvP then go PvP when the new reward system is in place.
If a player never went back for the bonus, so what, thats a personal choice made by the player, just because there is an 1000xp it doesn't mean you have to do the bonus or that you actually need the bonus to progress.
The amount of players argument is like a wifes tale, there maybe some truth in it somewhere, but when examine upclose it just doesn't cut it.
There may be a few missions that you have to finish before you get the bonus, not sure which, I haven't found any, sure I've found very very hard ones, but not impossible. In real terms having to finish the mission to get the bonus would add an extra 5-30 mins onto your game per mission.

Quote:

What if the "new PuG system" were setup so that you *couldn't* lie? If you ticked that you would do the mission and then formed a PuG with that option ticked, then if you aborted the mission after finishing the bonus you would not get credit because the game would see that you lied on your PuG application. However, if you did not tick the "mission" checkbox and you joined a PuG, then you could safely quit after doing the bonus even if everyone else wanted to do the mission--because you advertised up front what your intentions were and it should not be a surprise to the rest of the party when you up and leave after the bonus.

In an ideal world maybe, but do you really think people will do this? The general public are far to lazy, 1 in 10 may use the system, the majority would just contine to spam the chat channel.
Its not hard to make a group, Generally I just hold CTRL look for players in groups (numbers above heads) invite them. If they accept / invite me I then ask what they up for, mission, skill run, bonus or questing. 9/10 I will just tag a long anyway as whats the rush? If they don't suite me at all I leave group, rince and repeat.
9/10 this works fine, the main reason I will leave a group is if 1 members is a gutter mouth as I dont play to hear it, or if they dont respond to inital hi, whats the plan.

Truth is it probably wont happen, but it is a good idea with merits and if you insist in pickin holes it others ideas, make sure your own are water tight .

Kali Ma · Jun 25, 2005, 02:13 AM // 02:13

Quote:

Name one mission where you can't do the main misison and bonus in one run?

There have been several mission/bonus pugs that I've joined which failed the bonus but completed the mission. One that comes to mind most is the D'Alessio Seaboard mission, with Benji and the Pot... did that one with 13 groups before we completed the bonus.

In my experience, finding a pug that is able to complete both the mission and bonus successfully on the first try is the exception, rather than the norm.

Fwiw, every team I've joined that was "bonus only" which succeeded ended up sticking together to finish the mission when one of the members hadn't done it yet. I've never been in a mission/bonus where a member dropped when the bonus was done. Part of the reason I feel is that when a team is really good and having fun, that nobody wants to drop because it's so rare.

Dazzler · Jun 25, 2005, 03:44 AM // 03:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow_Avenger

Now you can pick at it all night / day, but anything can be twisted. Face it having to actually finish a mission before you recieve 1000xp bonus isn't going to effect you, if you are PvE you will relish the challange, if you PvP then go PvP when the new reward system is in place.

I'm not quite sure where you got all this. Having to actually finish a mission before I recieve the bonus will indeed affect me: I will have to finish the mission to receive the bonus. By it's very definition it is a change that I find to be for the negative. I like this aspect of the game as ANet designed it and will be negatively affected if it is changed as suggested here. I play very little PVP. I play PvE and I do not "relish the challenge" of replaying the whole mission when all I am after is the bonus. I would rather be able to move on to the next mission after having gotten my two swords on the current mission.

Quote:

In an ideal world maybe, but do you really think people will do this? The general public are far to lazy, 1 in 10 may use the system, the majority would just contine to spam the chat channel.

I think the people in this thread that are unhappy with the way that have been treated by the selfish would enjoy such a system. Let the lazy people continue to use the current spam methodology if they wish. People wanting good groups that work together will do this. Besides, in 90% of the PuG forming sessions I've been in, we have sat around for EVER while we tracked down the elusive monk or warrior or whatever we need to round out our team. If there were an effective, easy, search match-making mechanism this idle time would go away and it would make PuG forming so easy that the "lazy" people, by definition, would gravitate towards it. I did not originate this idea. I just added my support for it.

Quote:

Its not hard to make a group, Generally I just hold CTRL look for players in groups (numbers above heads) invite them. If they accept / invite me I then ask what they up for, mission, skill run, bonus or questing. 9/10 I will just tag a long anyway as whats the rush? If they don't suite me at all I leave group, rince and repeat.
9/10 this works fine, the main reason I will leave a group is if 1 members is a gutter mouth as I dont play to hear it, or if they dont respond to inital hi, whats the plan.

Seems to me, that rather than change the current mission system, you should just cut&paste this as advice to the OP. Seems like you have a system that works well for you and does not cause undue frustration under the current system. If you can pass along this philosophy and help some people learn to make groups that make them happy, then we can avoid the "need" to make a change that is guaranteed to upset a portion of the player base, myself included.

=HT=Ingram · Jun 25, 2005, 03:52 AM // 03:52

hum... not sure I like this cause I have done almost every mission with my 2ndary character and did both bonus and mission at the same time... The only exception was sanctums cay where I had to do it twice cause I have yet to find a way to do that in one run... But basically most of the missions can be done that way... do the bonus then finish the mission and done.. I would hate to have to do it again and again just to get the bonus finished... too repetitive that way... Its better to just do them both at once... and be done with it. course up until about divinity coast I just did all the missions with henchmen only, on both builds. why waste time with people that have no clue what to do till you have too... and quite frankly the more I play with others anymore, I figure I should just get used to going with henchmen 90% of the time... most of the time they are better then the non NPC players anyway.

Shadow_Avenger · Jun 25, 2005, 09:07 AM // 09:07

Quote:

I'm not quite sure where you got all this. Having to actually finish a mission before I recieve the bonus will indeed affect me: I will have to finish the mission to receive the bonus. By it's very definition it is a change that I find to be for the negative. I like this aspect of the game as ANet designed it and will be negatively affected if it is changed as suggested here. I play very little PVP. I play PvE and I do not "relish the challenge" of replaying the whole mission when all I am after is the bonus. I would rather be able to move on to the next mission after having gotten my two swords on the current mission.

No worries, but let me read this the way I see it.
'I do mission, don't do the bonus first time as it is often too hard to do in one run, so I will then go back and repeat the mission x times to get the bonus. It is because I have to go back and repeat mission x times to gain bonus that I do not want to finish the rest of the mission. myself I am a completitionist and do not enjoy my game unless I finish every mission with both swords before I move on.'

Mygo · Jun 25, 2005, 09:22 AM // 09:22

Heh, just a few notes about that Iron mine mission, you can do the bonus later by not initiating the conversation with the NPC that spawns the mursaat leader and his units. I don't recall having to sift through 20 of them.

You may be referring to the Icy Caves of Sorrow mission which has about 20 mursaat that come from the right and may chase you on your race to the boat to escape. A tactic you can use here is to let the large patrol pass you and then take them out when they get near the bridge where the place is getting bombarded by siege weaponry. The mursaat get ripped up there and you can finish them off pretty easily even without being infused.

As for the issue of getting bonus rewards only on mission completion, you'd really need to jack up the rewards on these bonuses and/or revisit some of the harder bonuses that make completing the mission near-impossible. Sanctum Cay is probably the worst offender. That definitely was one of the hardest bonuses as completing the bonus sets off a proximity alert on the white mantle on either side of the Vizier sending them all to swarm his position where you begin the objective to hold them off. Because there's a huge amount of mantle there they rip up the Vizier within seconds and it ends your mission rather quickly.

Porkchop Sandwhiches · Jun 25, 2005, 10:07 AM // 10:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draconias

[b]To do the Bonus on the Ice Caves, you must defeat 3 Jades and 3 Mursaat Elementalists, minimum. You can't get infused until the next Mission. It is physically impossible to beat the Bonus on the Ice Caves with 6 uninfused people with Mursaat smacking your people for 100 dmg a second, 24 hp degen, and 160 dmg from Chain Lightnings, all while Jades tank you and do Spectral Agony as well. The only way to beat this is to complete the mission, do the next mission, then come back and do this mission again-- so the minimum number of runs required is 2, even though you can do the mission as well on the 2nd run.

lol no

You can use the catapults to kill them. Just walk down the path a ways and when the Mursaat get to where the siege is, they will die. Then go back.

john little · Jun 25, 2005, 10:24 AM // 10:24

While the whole 'lfg bonus' is annoying when you are trying to get through the game (again), forcing players to complete both does seem a tad unnecessary (especially for only 1000xp). I think a lot of this is more down to stubborn players than the game mechanics, i'd like to think that a 'bonus only' person could be persuaded to carry on and complete the mission (either by words or by wallet). Similarly, all players should make thier intentions clear beforehand, same with smiting monks. Confusion over objectives in both PvE and PvP is often deadly and causes unnecessary anger.

Personally, i'd rather just get the 30?-odd thousand xp from the fissure of woe in one run rather than going back to do all the silly little bonus missions, but thats just me and it shouldn't be forced upon everyone.

Fantras · Jun 25, 2005, 10:32 AM // 10:32

I personally don't want this. I want the option to complete the bonus alone if I want. I don't want to do the whole mission over again just to do the bonus.

=HT=Ingram · Jun 25, 2005, 11:08 AM // 11:08

I got it... If they prematurely leave an instance and make the party fail the primary mission all their items picked up would be forfeit and upon returning to the game they don't have anything they picked up in the instance... OH I love that idea... I love it to death... again it will never happen... but man it would nice to see something done to prevent them from just leaving when they get what they want.

Elite skill scavengers are just as bad as the bonus only people...

But when you go in by yourself you are not abandoning a party, so it would not effect you alone, only those that abandon people in a mission and force them to quit... lol Oh man. that would make things pretty rotten for these people...

But alas, Just play. if you get a jerk like that again... Put them on your ignore list. if there is one thing I wish I had bigger in the game, its a bigger ignore list... Every time I get a jerk like this on it goes, then I don't get them on my party by mistake again... Since I normally whisper people to add to a group. But you know a little * or something would be nice if they are on my ignore list... it would make it easier when forming parties.